Lex Fridman and Andrew Huberman

Andrew Huberman, who is making his fourth appearance on the podcast. The episode was recorded on Lex's birthday, with Andrew flying to Austin to celebrate and have an impromptu podcast conversation. Lex expresses gratitude for good friends, support, and life itself, and introduces Andrew Huberman as the guest for the episode.

[Andrew Huberman: Relationships, Drama, Betrayal, Sex, and Love | Lex Fridman Podcast #393](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTBAxD6lt2g)

## Andrew Huberman's Exercise Routine

- Andrew Huberman's exercise routine involves lifting weights three days a week and running three days a week.
- He extends the duration of his long runs and values being mobile and able to sprint or run long distances.
- Huberman alternates between heavy lifting and lighter weights with higher repetitions for joint health, varying his training approach for cognitive benefits.
- Different training regimens seem to influence cognition, with cardio and higher repetition ranges enhancing his mental clarity.
- Huberman believes that subjecting the body to various stressors in space and time is valuable for overall health.
- He favors long, slow exercises for their impact on cognition, promoting a sense of clarity and relaxation.
- The conversation delves into knee discomfort caused by a grappling injury, leading him to experiment with pain-free activities like walking.
- Huberman discusses integrating light exercise with cognitive work, citing historical figures who thought while walking.
- He talks about his practice of walking while reading, underlining, and using voice dictation for writing and drafting.
- Walking has been instrumental in helping Huberman think more clearly during meetings and other cognitive tasks.
- The concept of integrating exercise and cognitive work is explored, and Huberman mentions Nobel laureate Richard Axel's practice of dictating papers while walking.
- The discussion touches on the benefits of long runs, walks, and cognitive integration, contrasting them with high-intensity activities like sprints.
- Huberman talks about his experience in a beginner Jiu Jitsu class with Lex Fridman and comments on his strength.
- The conversation briefly references physical attributes and humorous comments about strong individuals like Jocko and Chuck Norris.
- The discussion ends with a mention of the missing comments section on [Joe Rogan's](/posts/Joe-Rogan-Lex-Fridman-Podcast) full-length YouTube episodes.

## Advice to Younger Self

- Andrew Huberman discusses what he loves about getting older, highlighting the confirmation that comes from accumulating more life experiences.
- He emphasizes the value of trusting one's initial signals and gut feelings, especially those that align with subsequent experiences.
- Huberman shares that certain negative feelings about decisions proved to be accurate over time, as did positive feelings about people and experiences.
- The conversation touches on the challenge of questioning one's own instincts when younger and how age brings a better ability to trust those instincts.
- Huberman reflects on how his community and people around him often had valuable insights and opinions, helping him make better choices.
- He recalls not always listening to his parents during his youth and shares an insight gained during a psilocybin journey regarding his childhood friends.
- Huberman discusses growing up with a diverse group of friends and acquaintances, highlighting the different paths they took in life.
- The discussion shifts to the brain's insula region, which represents internal sensations and interoception. Paul Conti's perspective on the brain is mentioned.
- Huberman explains Paul Conti's view that the subconscious is the brain's "supercomputer," driving feelings and decisions beneath conscious awareness.
- He mentions Paul Conti's upcoming podcast series on Mental Health, emphasizing the exploration of the subconscious for self-improvement.
- The importance of introspection and understanding signals from the body and brain is discussed, rather than solely relying on conscious thought.
- The conversation touches on the concept of introspection to better integrate signals from the body and brain for adaptive decision-making and personal growth.

## Jungian Shadow

- The conversation starts with the discussion of the Jungian concept of the shadow, which represents the darker and hidden aspects within individuals.
- The idea is that everyone has the capacity for both good and evil, but some people spend more time exploring their darker tendencies or shadows.
- Huberman reflects on his own inclination towards goodness, light, and joy, but acknowledges the importance of understanding and working with shadow elements.
- He emphasizes that exploring and understanding one's shadow parts is crucial for mental health, preventing those aspects from surfacing in damaging behaviors or addictions.
- The discussion touches on the process of bringing subconscious elements to the surface and exploring the self in a structured manner.
- Paul Conti's work is introduced, particularly a four-episode podcast series on Mental Health that focuses on self-exploration and understanding.
- The conversation delves into the concept of subconscious exploration, noting that many people lack the tools and knowledge to effectively explore their own subconscious.
- The importance of addressing questions about one's identity, ambitions, and desires is highlighted, and therapy is mentioned as a valuable tool for this purpose.
- Huberman shares his personal experience with therapy, discussing its significance and comparing it to going to the gym.
- The role of a skilled therapist in asking profound questions and guiding individuals to understand themselves better is emphasized.
- The conversation concludes with a mention of the importance of support, rapport, and insight in therapy for exploring one's shadow and subconscious.

## Betrayal and Loyalty, to Oneself and Others

- The conversation touches on the idea of embracing or fixing certain aspects of oneself, discussing whether to accept these traits as part of who you are or to work on changing them.
- The concept of finding inner peace and lightness of being is discussed, and how laughter can play a role in achieving this.
- The lyrics of a song from the band [Rancid, "Indestructible"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-0MXObSCE) are mentioned, emphasizing the importance of pushing past disturbing emotions and moving forward.
- Andrew Huberman shares a personal story about his strong sense of justice and anger being linked, causing him to become frustrated and angry when confronted with injustice.
- The conversation explores the significance of understanding and addressing subconscious blind spots to achieve emotional growth and self-awareness.
- The importance of doing hard things and facing challenges is discussed, along with the balance of pushing oneself without destroying one's body or mind in the process.
- The idea of achieving peace through embracing one's flaws and finding humor in them is highlighted.
- Andrew Huberman talks about his experiences with therapy and introspection, discussing how insights gained from deep introspection can lead to transformation.
- [Elon Musk's](/posts/Elon-Musk) belief in the most entertaining outcome being the most likely is mentioned in relation to a potential fight between Musk and Mark Zuckerberg.
- The discussion moves to the topic of physical intimacy and bonding that can occur through activities like sparring or combat sports.
- The conversation touches on Mike Tyson's life journey and the ups and downs he has experienced.
- The conversation briefly shifts to Neri Oxman, an individual the host has recently gotten to know.

## Drama

1. **Attraction to Drama and Human Psychology:**
   - [Lex Fridman](/posts/Lex-Fridman) asks why humans are attracted to Shakespearean drama.
   - Andrew Huberman discusses how humans are drawn to drama due to their subconscious minds and psychological aspects.
   - Huberman shares personal examples of how he was attracted to people with unique personalities and characters.

2. **Different Drives and Personalities:**
   - Huberman talks about the different drives within individuals, such as aggressive drives and pleasure drives.
   - He mentions how people have varying ratios of these drives, leading to different preferences for drama and excitement.

3. **Shakespearean Drama and Life Stages:**
   - The discussion explores how people go through different stages in life, seeking drama, adventure, excitement, and challenges.
   - As people age, they might seek more peace and contentment, valuing quieter moments and relief from intense drama.

4. **Spiritual and Personal Growth:**
   - Huberman discusses his personal experiences with prayer and spirituality.
   - He explains how prayer has become a way for him to connect with something bigger than himself and seek help in removing character defects.

5. **Acknowledging Higher Powers:**
   - Huberman emphasizes that prayer doesn't have to adhere to a traditional religion and can be an individual practice.
   - Prayer, for him, involves acknowledging a higher power or force and giving up control to allow positive changes through right action.

6. **Humility and Self-Improvement:**
   - Prayer offers a sense of humility by recognizing a power greater than oneself.
   - Huberman discusses the importance of being honest with oneself and asking for help in overcoming challenges.

7. **Benefits of Prayer:**
   - Huberman explains how prayer has helped him improve relationships, self-awareness, and overall well-being.
   - He emphasizes that prayer is a powerful tool that goes beyond other practices like meditation due to its connection to something deeper.

8. **Sharing Knowledge for Well-Being:**
   - Huberman discusses his motivation for sharing scientific knowledge, tools, and protocols for improving mental health and well-being.
   - He highlights the importance of providing information that can help reduce suffering and enhance the quality of life.

## Chimp Empire

1. **Subconscious Mind and Raw Emotions:**
   - Andrew Huberman discusses the subconscious mind and how children often express raw emotions without masking them.
   - He mentions how people tend to cover up their true feelings as they grow older and wear masks to appear functional in society.

2. **Fear of Weakness and Displays of Vigor:**
   - Huberman theorizes that many people, especially men, fear appearing weak and often display strength or vigor to counteract this.
   - He draws parallels between human displays of strength on social media and the alpha chimp's vigorous displays to assert dominance.

3. **Primate Behavior and Social Hierarchy:**
   - The conversation delves into primate behavior and social hierarchies, focusing on alpha chimp behavior.
   - Huberman explains that displays of vigor in primates can serve as both demonstrations of strength and insurance policies against showing weakness.

4. **Social Affiliation and Grooming:**
   - Huberman highlights the importance of social affiliation and grooming in primate societies.
   - Grooming behavior signifies alliances and can lead to support within a troop, while lack of grooming can lead to ostracism and potential health issues.

5. **Strategies for Ascendancy:**
   - The discussion explores how subordinate male primates, like number two and three, may use grooming to gain support and potentially overthrow the current alpha.
   - Huberman reveals that grooming strategies involve complex calculations and even thoughts about overtaking the troop leadership.

6. **Complexity in Primate Behavior:**
   - Huberman emphasizes the sophistication of primate behavior, challenging common notions about the simplicity of non-human animal interactions.
   - He showcases how primates, like chimps, engage in advanced strategies, demonstrate forethought, and plan their actions based on social dynamics.

7. **Advanced Contracting of Behavior:**
   - The conversation concludes with the idea that even in less advanced species, behaviors can be contracted and manipulated to achieve specific goals, similar to how humans engage in complex social dynamics.

## Overt vs Covert Contracts

1. **Overt vs. Covert Contracts:**
   - Huberman introduces the concept of overt contracts, where explicit agreements are made, and covert contracts, which are hidden agendas or expectations in relationships.
   - Overt contracts involve straightforward exchanges of work, money, time, or other resources, whereas covert contracts involve hidden expectations.

2. **Covert Contracts Lead to Problems:**
   - Huberman asserts that covert contracts typically lead to negative outcomes because they involve hidden motivations or agendas that can result in resentment and misunderstanding.

3. **Examples of Covert Contracts:**
   - Examples of covert contracts include manipulative behaviors, taking actions to undermine someone while maintaining a façade, or expecting certain behaviors in exchange for something without openly discussing it.

4. **Chimp and Human Relationships:**
   - Huberman compares the dog-human relationship (100% overt) with chimp-human relationships, noting that chimps can engage in covert behavior like forming alliances, grooming, and strategic planning.

5. **Relationships and Contracts:**
   - Huberman discusses how relationships, both romantic and non-romantic, involve a mixture of overt and covert contracts.
   - He distinguishes between harmless covert contracts (e.g., mutual empowerment) and harmful ones (e.g., manipulation for personal gain).

6. **Trust and Cynicism:**
   - People must decide whether to trust others or adopt cynicism based on their assessment of overt and covert behaviors in human interactions.
   - Huberman acknowledges the challenge of discerning between the two types of contracts, as they may appear similar on the surface.

7. **Resolving Flaws and Change:**
   - Huberman believes that history doesn't necessarily repeat itself in human behavior if individuals actively work on resolving their flaws.
   - People can change and grow through introspection, hard conversations, and a genuine desire to improve.

8. **Valuing Overt Relationships:**
   - Huberman values overt relationships and loyalty, stating that he has been fortunate to experience fulfilling relationships based on open and honest communication.

## Age and Health

1. **Circadian Rhythms and Aging:**
   - The circadian clock, a robust feature of human biology, plays a crucial role in maintaining health of both the mind and body.
   - Ageing is not linear; the degree of change between certain age ranges differs.

2. **Personal Experience with Aging:**
   - Huberman, who is 48 years old, claims to feel better in terms of both psychology and biology compared to his 20s.
   - He suggests that quality of thought, physical capabilities, and overall well-being can improve with age and continued training.

3. **Training Approach for Better Health:**
   - Huberman emphasizes the importance of consistent training to maintain health and fitness.
   - His training strategy involves a combination of weight training, running, and careful planning to avoid injury.
   - Training hard, but with caution, is key to achieving better health over time.

4. **Balancing Fitness and Avoiding Injury:**
   - Consistency is important, but avoiding overtraining is crucial to prevent injuries.
   - Huberman explains how he manages his workout routine to avoid getting injured, including taking days off and paying attention to form.

5. **Sport vs. Fitness:**
   - Engaging in sports presents a different injury risk compared to fitness training.
   - Overuse injuries can occur in sports due to frequent participation and the intensity of the activities.

6. **Challenges of Getting Hurt:**
   - Huberman talks about psychological challenges associated with injuries.
   - Minor injuries from everyday activities can be frustrating, and differentiating between injuries from meaningful activities and accidents matters.

7. **Saying No and Training Safely:**
   - Saying no to challenging or risky workouts with others is crucial to avoiding unnecessary injuries.
   - Safety and proper form take precedence over extreme challenges or peer pressure.

8. **Injury Prevention Strategies:**
   - Huberman shares his experience of learning from challenging workouts without getting injured.
   - Proper planning and training techniques can help prevent injuries during intense workouts.

9. **Learning from Injuries:**
   - Injuries can be trophies when they result from engaging in impressive or ambitious activities.
   - Unexpected and seemingly trivial injuries are the ones that tend to be frustrating and difficult to accept.

## Sexual Selection

1. **Nature's Colorful Displays:**
   - "Life in Color with David Attenborough" showcases how various animals exhibit colorful and elaborate displays to attract mates.
   - From peacocks to cuttlefish, these displays are a result of sexual selection, where certain traits become exaggerated over time due to mate preference.

2. **Natural Selection vs. Sexual Selection:**
   - Natural selection drives adaptation for survival, while sexual selection involves traits that enhance mating success.
   - Sexual selection can lead to extravagant features, like the peacock's tail, which may seem impractical for survival.

3. **Intraspecies Competition and Choice:**
   - Animals often engage in competition for mates, including battles among males for access to females.
   - Females, in many cases, have the power to choose their mates based on certain attributes or displays.

4. **Examples of Sexual Selection:**
   - Huberman highlights examples like peacocks' tail feathers and cuttlefish tactics as illustrations of sexual selection.
   - These displays are intended to attract mates, and their evolution is shaped by both female choice and male competition.

5. **Covert Contracts in Animal Behavior:**
   - Some animal behaviors, like chemical interactions in the womb or deceptive tactics for mating, resemble the idea of covert contracts.
   - These behaviors are driven by natural instincts and strategies to ensure reproductive success.

6. **Symbiosis Between Traits and Reproduction:**
   - Many traits and behaviors that animals exhibit are deeply connected to their reproductive success.
   - From courtship rituals to deceptive strategies, these traits contribute to their overall reproductive fitness.

7. **Evolution of Behavioral Circuits:**
   - Huberman discusses how even seemingly complex behaviors are products of neural circuits, whether instinctual or learned.
   - These circuits evolve over time through natural selection, leading to effective strategies for mating.

8. **Genetic Mutations and Adaptation:**
   - Genetic mutations can influence behaviors and traits that affect mate choice and reproductive success.
   - Adaptive traits require a longer time to evolve, while maladaptive traits can emerge more quickly.

9. **Choosing Mates Wisely:**
   - Huberman emphasizes the importance of choosing mates wisely, as reproductive success impacts the future of a species.
   - The discussion on sexual selection serves as a segue into talking about relationships and their complexity.

## Relationships

1. **Building Relationships:**
   - Huberman discusses the importance of defining the type of relationship one is seeking, whether for companionship, family, or other forms of connection.
   - Friendships serve as a foundation for successful romantic relationships, with mutual respect, admiration, and delight being key aspects.

2. **Learning from Successful Relationships:**
   - Learning from those who are in long-term, successful relationships can provide valuable insights into how to approach building meaningful connections.
   - Friendships and the shared experience of growth are often at the core of successful relationships.

3. **Friendship as the Core:**
   - Friendship plays a crucial role in romantic relationships, fostering trust, understanding, and a sense of safety.
   - Strong romantic relationships often develop from a deep-rooted friendship and mutual respect.

4. **Taking It Slow:**
   - Establishing a solid friendship before diving into the physical aspect of a relationship can help avoid early complications and misunderstandings.
   - Physical attraction should be balanced with emotional and mental connection to ensure a lasting bond.

5. **Tackling Difficult Conversations:**
   - Open communication and the ability to have hard conversations are vital for a successful relationship.
   - Avoiding covert contracts, hidden expectations, and vulnerabilities is important for maintaining a healthy connection.

6. **Seeking Joy and Peace:**
   - The feeling of joy in the presence of a partner, coupled with a sense of peace and acceptance, characterizes a healthy relationship.
   - Love and attraction should contribute to the overall sense of delight in being together.

7. **Choosing Partners Wisely:**
   - Developing a sense of taste in romantic attraction helps in selecting partners who align with one's values and desires.
   - Identifying what one truly likes and appreciates in a partner helps build a strong connection.

8. **Mutual Adoration:**
   - Developing a genuine fondness for various aspects of a partner's character and behavior strengthens the connection.
   - Small details and quirks can contribute to the deep admiration and enjoyment of each other's company.

9. **The Feeling of Love:**
   - Love is not a negotiation; it's about feeling fully and wholeheartedly connected.
   - When love is mutual and unequivocal, it's an indicator of a promising and fulfilling relationship.

10. **Constructing Love Over Time:**
    - Love involves creating a narrative of shared experiences and a future together, contributing to a sense of connection and attachment.

11. **Navigating Breakups and Grief:**
    - The experience of a breakup can involve grief, as attachment mechanisms are at play.
    - Recognizing the stages of grief and allowing oneself to process the emotions is essential for healing.

## Fertility

1. **Fertility and Gender Selection:**
   - The conversation begins with the topic of fertility and gender selection. Huberman mentions that there are clinics that attempt to separate sperm fractions to bias the probability towards male or female births, but this procedure is costly and controversial.
   - IVF (in vitro fertilization) allows for embryo selection based on karyotyping, which determines the gender of the offspring.

2. **Sexual Position and Fertilization:**
   - There's lore about sexual positions impacting the gender of the offspring, but scientific data on this topic are limited.
   - Research suggests that for maximizing successful fertilization, it's recommended that a woman not stand upright immediately after ejaculation and should instead tilt her pelvis upwards for about 15 minutes. This helps keep semen from leaking out and enhances the chances of fertilization.

3. **Age and Gender Probability:**
   - The age of the father is linked to the probability of having a daughter. With each passing year, the chances of having a daughter increase slightly.

4. **IVF and Genetic Screening:**
   - IVF allows for genetic screening of embryos to select for gender. However, this procedure is used for various medical reasons and not solely for gender selection.

5. **Sexual Health and Dysfunction:**
   - The conversation shifts to sexual health and dysfunction, with a focus on issues beyond the reproductive system.
   - Sexual dysfunction is often linked to pelvic floor, vascular, or neural issues, rather than hormonal or psychogenic factors.
   - Pelvic floor dysfunction can manifest as either tightness or weakness, and addressing it requires tailored approaches based on the individual's condition.

6. **Shift in Sexual Health Discussions:**
   - There is a growing interest in discussing sexual and reproductive health openly and factually.
   - The importance of pelvic floor specialists and other experts in addressing sexual health issues is highlighted.
   - Anatomical, hormonal, and neural aspects of sexual health are expected to be discussed more openly and honestly in the future.

7. **Hormonal Issues and Desire:**
   - Hormonal issues can impact sexual desire, particularly in cases where medication (such as SSRIs) or hormonal imbalances are involved.

8. **Productivity and Research:**
   - The conversation briefly touches on Huberman's productivity and his approach to research, suggesting he is well-versed in a wide range of topics related to sexual health and more.

## Productivity

1. **Productivity and Research:**
   - Huberman discusses his approach to productivity and how he maximizes his productive hours in a day. He emphasizes meeting deadlines and is relentless about it.
   - He acknowledges that sometimes cramming or early starts are necessary to meet deadlines.

2. **Challenges in Podcasting:**
   - They discuss the challenges of podcasting, especially when dealing with complex topics that might be scrutinized by experts in the field.
   - Huberman highlights that he does extensive research for his episodes and even has a colleague who helps him find relevant papers.

3. **Research Process:**
   - Huberman does all the primary research for his episodes and focuses on finding papers that establish a thorough understanding of the topic.
   - He seeks out papers that are interesting, actionable, and can be shared with thoughtfulness.

4. **Daily Routine and Focus:**
   - Huberman's productive routine involves getting up early, prioritizing focused work, and not allowing peak hours to be interrupted unless there's an emergency.
   - He emphasizes the importance of focus and maximizing total focus on a task rather than just logging hours.

5. **Balancing Work and Life:**
   - While Huberman is committed to his work, he also recognizes the need to engage in social interactions and find a balance between work and personal life.

6. **Creative Process and Learning:**
   - He derives joy from learning, researching, and sharing information. He approaches podcasting as a way to teach and share knowledge.

7. **Embracing the Pioneer Role:**
   - Huberman acknowledges that there's no precedent for his style of podcasting, and he embraces the role of a pioneer in the field.

8. **Learning and Teaching:**
   - Huberman draws parallels between teaching and learning, suggesting that the best lecturers approach their subject as both deep learners and experts.

9. **Distraction and Focus in Relationships:**
   - The conversation shifts to discussing the importance of peace and focus in romantic relationships.
   - Huberman explains that a strong relationship allows for deep focus both on the partner and on personal pursuits.

10. **Balancing Peace and Focus:**
    - Huberman highlights the connection between peace, focus, and creativity in both personal and work aspects of life.
    - He suggests that the ability to support each other's generative modes fosters a fulfilling relationship.

11. **Simplicity and Inner Peace:**
    - As people grow older, their desires become simpler and their focus shifts towards achieving inner peace, even as the challenges become greater.

## Family

1. **Loss and Grief:**
   - Huberman reflects on the passing of his dog, Costello, and how he continues to be emotionally affected by it even after two years. He mentions that the depth of grief is proportional to the love he felt for Costello.

2. **The Beauty of Letting Go:**
   - Although the act of putting down Costello and his subsequent passing were emotionally challenging, Huberman found the experience to be unexpectedly beautiful. He notes that he felt warmth in his heart at the moment of Costello's passing.

3. **Supernatural Experience:**
   - Huberman describes the intense and unexpected emotional experience he had when Costello passed away. He felt his heart warm up and describes it as a supernatural event. He was surprised by this sensation, especially considering his history of dealing with grief.

4. **Love and Bond with a Pet:**
   - Huberman emphasizes the powerful bond and love he shared with Costello, his dog. He talks about the profound impact the dog had on his life and the sense of home that Costello provided.

5. **Finding Love Again:**
   - Fridman asks Huberman where he thinks he can find that kind of love again after losing Costello. Huberman expresses uncertainty and acknowledges that it's a challenge he's unsure of how to address.

6. **Barbara's Impact:**
   - Huberman mentions his close relationship with Barbara and how her passing had a significant impact on him. He recalls the difficulty of saying goodbye to her, particularly given their shared responsibilities with their children.

7. **Desire for Parenthood:**
   - Huberman talks about how Barbara's passing shifted his perspective and intensified his desire to have children of his own. He expresses readiness to become a father and emphasizes that he wants to experience the profound love and care he had for Costello with his own children.

8. **Joy of Parenthood:**
   - Fridman expresses his anticipation of Huberman becoming a father and believes that parenthood brings immense joy, love, and meaning to one's life. He draws parallels with other podcasters who have children and highlights the positive impact it has on their lives.

9. **Impact of Children:**
   - Fridman suggests that having children not only enhances one's life but also makes them more productive and better people overall. He emphasizes the positive transformation that children can bring to a person's life.

10. **Appreciation and Love:**
    - The conversation concludes with expressions of mutual appreciation and friendship between Fridman and Huberman. They express gratitude for each other's examples and support.

11. **Closing Quote:**
    - Fridman ends the podcast by sharing a quote

"In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer. And that makes me happy. For it says that no matter how hard the world pushes against me, within me, there's something stronger – something better, pushing right back."

\- Albert Camus

Lex Fridman and Andrew Huberman | Round 4